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Forum:Gameplay Discussion
General Gameplay environmental features Resources Hazza-the-Fox 12:13, January 19, 2012 (UTC) Resources in Red Alert Zero are supply units obtained from shipping in supplies specific captured neutral structures or abandonned stashes using supply trucks or supply barges to your depot structure- or by building/capturing supply-generating structures- a quick rundown of possible sources; *'Supply stash'- exactly like the stashes from Generals- only they have a more limited supply of resources- they have the advantage that supply vehicles can collect them quickly and at once without waiting in line; *'Warehouses/Seaports'; Might possibly need be captured by an engineer (or not). Constantly generates supplies at a decent pace. The only downside is that supply trucks must line up and wait to be loaded, rather than all gather and collect their resources at once. *'Checkpoints (border gates);' The most rewarding source of income. Basically a 'border gate' positioned at the edge of the map, to collect proper shipments from the homebase outside. These MUST be captured by an engineer. Trucks leave the map through these (technically they get stored inside) and are out of play for about a minute; they then are returned to the map, and make a journey to the base. Resources returned from the Checkpoint provide HUGE returns- and possibly further bonuses. *'Supply Crates'- some supply crates bestow bonuses on the unit/side that touches them (any unit)- some instantly inject a cash bonus. *'Supply Generators'; Usually oilrigs on land and sea- must be captured by an engineer- but unlike other structures, these directly inject the resources into your coffers, without the need to deliver them via supply trucks. Also, both Allies and Soviets can build their own generators- though these are extremely expensive. One last note: When a supply ship is destroyed, it sinks, with whateve supplies it was carrying. When a supply truck is destroyed, it often actually drops its supplies on the road, to be picked up. Bonus crates may occasionally be dropped (maybe only in case of checkpoints). This encourages players to set more deliberate ambushes for supply trucks, actually letting them pass to collect supplies, but killing them on the return journey to pillage their loot. When a supply truck leaves a checkpoint border gate that is later captured, that truck will return via any other border gate you control- or else will NOT enter the map until you have re-captured a checkpoint. "Trench Bonus" Hazza-the-Fox 12:13, January 19, 2012 (UTC)Taking a leaf from Emperor Battle For Dune (and of course Warhammer), certain areas and features of the map provide excellent cover for infantry- granting them the 'trench bonus'. Environmental features such as cliff edges, rocky outcrops, 'tank trap' fields, shrubbery and of course, trenches- grant all infantry units the following bonuses; *These infantry cannot be crushed by ANY vehicle *These infantry gain a huge armor boost, and some might even narrowly survive a sniper bullet *They gain a very slight range (or ROF) advantage. *Possibly (and probably not advised), they are concealed from view at longer ranges. The trench bonus still has plenty of flaws; *Infantry might possibly move slower (though probably unnecessary) *Robots and dogs can still enter and attack as normal *Certain weapons completely ignore the trench bonus- flamethrowers, mind control, Chrono-Erase, dog attacks, Terror Drone attacks, Tesla, Toxins, Radiation and probably Prism and Sonic too. The Sonic Tank's secondary ability works perfectly fine. Garrisonable Structures Hazza-the-Fox 12:13, January 19, 2012 (UTC) Garrisonable Structures in Red Alert Zero typically are half-way between Red Alert 2 and Generals; More types of infantry can enter these structures, but plenty still cannot; Typically; *Marines, Conscripts, Jager, Crazy Ivans, can enter structures and shoot from inside *Dogs, Pariahs, SkySec Troopers, Guardians, Tesla Troopers, and in general most heavy infantry cannot. Garrisonable Structures completely absorb all the damage for the infantry stationed inside against most attacks- with a few exceptions; *Pariahs can enter the structure to self-destruct; killing all inside and possibly critically damaging the structure. *Crazy Ivans can fling a grenade into a window at close range and empty the structure without damaging it. *Flame units can instantly kill all occupants *Marines, Centurions and possibly Jagers can enter structures and kill all occupants without damaging the structure *The Sonic Tank's secondary attack can force enemy infantry to exit a structure it targets, and render the structure unusable so long as it keeps up the attack. *Most importantly, when infantry are garrisoned inside ANY structure, they suffer the same disadvantage against operatives with Alarm Bypass Training- and will not auto-fire on them. Note that player-made structures like the Battle Bunker and Infantry Pillbox have augmented capabilities- accomodating more types of unit, and sometimes bearing fewer weaknesses than a civilian structure. VolteMetalic 17:26, January 20, 2012 (UTC): Hmm... I would comment it like this. *Mirage, Conscript, Guardian GI, Flak Trooper, Scouts, Engineers, Medic, Spies, Commissar, PsiCorps, Jager, Paratrooper, Vietcong, M-COM and Crazy Ivan can enter the structures and depending on their attacks they will use them (Guardian will use his sidearm, not missile launcher). *Dogs, Pariah, Air-Defender, Chrono-Legionnaire, Tesla Trooper, Centurion and Desolator cant enter. The infantry which is unarmed (spies and engineers) can enter them, but will do nothing, just like in previous games. For the weaknesses and special cases. *Pariahs runs into the structure and detonates, damaging the structure, and killing few (not all) infantry inside. *Conscript's secondary and Crazy Ivans throws grenades into the windows, and injure them, not that one grenade kills ten guys :) Ivan is of course more stronger. And of course, the grenades little damages it, but not as other weapons. *Flame and radiation units can instantly kill all occupants. *Marines would be the only ones, or also Jager, could enter the structure and kill all occupants with no damage to the structure. *Agree with Sonic Tank. *Not sure how will this work. Ok :) Hazza-the-Fox 23:31, January 20, 2012 (UTC) I agree entirely with those combinations of who can enter; *Pariah- what if, it kills a few guys, brings the structure to red, and force-evaccuates the occupants? *Conscript/Ivan- Yes! That is much better! *Flame/radioation- agreed. *Marines/Jager- yep, definitely. *Sonic Tank- agreed. I was thinking, perhaps its main attack can also kill a few guys inside with every shot (though most of the damage goes to the structure itself) *Program-wise, its the structure doing the shooting isn't it? Logic-wise, Alarm-Bypass units are simply doing the same trick at avoiding other defenses- avoiding tripwires, and moving in the path of sensors/cameras, ducking below windows so the guys inside can't see, etc. Cool. Armor Categories and Weapon Types Hazza-the-Fox 15:50, January 15, 2012 (UTC) Ok, so here we have an overview of the main armor types to differentiate the armors and weapons (although we'd pretty much have a clear idea of what these are- some clarification and debate can't hurt); Note that the armor types don't *necessarily* imply an overall weaker armor- as some attacks may do slightly more damage to the generally 'heavier' category Armor *'Light Infantry-' Scouts, most infantry in general *'Medium Infantry'- Marines, Conscript, dogs *'Commando-' similar armor as medium infantry- but are uncrushable by HEAVY vehicles (due to evasive maneuvers). In effect, they are actually 'nudged aside' as if they were a tank. *'Heavy Infantry'- uncrushable by light and medium vehicles, resists or immune to radiation and takes reduced damage from napalm, and completely immune to dogs and small arms- and is highly resistant to both medium arms AND most anti-vehicular weapons, as they are both protected by armor, AND taking cover from enemy vehicles. *'Trench Bonus-' armor boost to all infantry, and renders them uncrushable by ANY vehicle. Also, some attacks that would normally insta-kill infantry might sometimes need two shots to kill. Does not work against radiation or napalm at all. * *'Robots-' inconveniently vulnerable to all kinds of fire (Except small arms). Luckily they are fast. *'Light Vehicles' (most vehicles that aren't tanks- also includes most artillery units, supply trucks, and grounded aircraft) *'Medium Vehicles'- Flak Raider, Wildcat- Moderate vulnerability to armor-piercing and anti-tank, but not so substantially to either. *'Tank Armor-' highly vulnerable to anti-tank, mildly vulnerable to armor-piercing, low vulnerabiltiy to medium arms, immune to small arms and napalm. Also highly resistant to radiation, and immune to toxin. *'Heavy Vehicles' (Devestator, Mastermind, Magnetron, Battle Fortress, Sonic Tank). Able to crush most infantry (including heavy) as well as walls, and can plough enemy vehicles aside. Immune to radiation, toxin and napalm. If any vehicles were to fear demolitionists, Pariahs and Sappers- it's these ones. * *'Basic Structure' (immune only to small arms) *'Wall- '(immune to small AND medium arms- does not apply to gates) * *'Aircraft-' don't see any need for different armor types, as the ways to attack air are all the same- note, aircraft that land become 'light vehicles' * *'Ships-' unique armor type- certain attacks excel against enemy ships *'Submerged- '''must be attacked by anti-sub attacks; if a sub surfaces, it becomes a 'ship' Weapon Types *'Small Arms'''- pistols and submachineguns, as well as knives and dog's teeth; cannot harm structures, vehicles, or heavy infantry. *'Medium Arms'- Marine/Conscript rifles, mounted machineguns of various types- can damage all targets, though is only particularly effective against infantry *'Armor Piercing'- better bonus against vehicles in general *'Sniper Rifle'- insta-kills light and medium infantry- and does considerable damage to heavy infantry- though may not necessary kill them- can probably harm robots- unlikely to harm vehicles. *'Anti-tank'- specifically focused against tanks, with mild bonus against vehicles, and highly ineffective against infantry *'Tank/Howitzer Shells'- excellent against vehicles and structures *'Explosive, bombs, and Artillery'- mainly effective against structures, but likely has bonus damage against numerous other targets (varies) *'Energy Weapons'; Generally highly effective against all targets, usually balanced by other performance factors. Note that the Desolator's gun falls under this category. *'Napalm/Flame'; Insta-kills infantry; infantry cannot cross walls of fire at all, vehicles can with minimal risk. Deadly against Basic structures- but useless against walls. Thermite is a different story. *'Toxin residue'- quickly kills infantry, vehicles take minimal damage- robots are immune; all units can cross toxic patches. *'Radiation residue'- more dangerous than toxins- all targets take damage when crossing it (though vehicles can withstand it to varying degrees); only occurs after successful nuclear detonation, or probably residue inflicted through Desolator attacks. Note that Radiation RESIDUE is not to be confused with *'Chrono-Erase'; works on all targets except aircraft (in flight) *'Mind Control'- Controls most units except animals (dog, squid, dolphin), robots (drones, Terror Drone, FlameBot) , Cyborgs (Pariah, Chrono-Legionairre), as well as OTHER Psychic units, units already being mind controlled, friendly units, garrisoned units, and aircraft in flight. Only the Control Ship can take control of enemy ships and structurse (possibly including/excluding garrisonable structures) *'Nuclear Explosion'- note that many nuclear units explode differently when succesfully self-detonated, or simply blasted away by enemy fire. Successful detonation results in a core implosion that results in a gigantic explosion that rips apart most units and structures with ease in a large area- and leaves radioactive residue that sizzles the landscape. If destroyed by enemy fire, the explosives go off prematurely, the core breaks apart- and the result is a normal (but large-ish) explosion, and TOXIC residue instead. Thus, nuclear attacks don't have a guaranteed atomic cataclism, but are guaranteed to inflict some devestation. Tech Structures Hazza-the-Fox 12:13, January 19, 2012 (UTC) Ok, more of a brainstorm we can do- I'll list a few structures, see what you think, and vice versa *'Hospital'- all infantry units auto-heal at a slow rate (stacks with other hospitals). Infantry can garrison this structure for fast healing. *'Garage'- all vehicles auto-repair slowly; Repair units are faster and more effective at repairing. Vehicles can be sent there to be instantly restored to full health (at cost of resources per health point- plus there is a delay between repairs) *'Oil Rig'- constantly generates resources directly into your account *'Airport'- you gain a regular infantry (or tank) paradrop anywhere on the map (so long as the plane survives before dropping them off) *'Reinforcement Checkpoint'- better version of checkpoint spawns random periodic reinforcements of your side's units (like in Emperor). These reinforcements always come through this checkpoint. *'Observatory/Listening Post'; provides huge line of sight, with periodic area reveal (all hidden units are visible to you for a few seconds). *'Civilian Powerplant'; generates a lot of power *'Subway/Teleport thingie-' quickly transport your units between subway entrace points of the map. *'Civilian Laborotory'; send your SPY in to steal a new branch of tech (admittedly I can't actually think of what that field of tech would possibly be without overlapping one or either side- so maybe not). Pricing Overview and discussion of basics Hazza-the-Fox 03:25, December 31, 2011 (UTC) Ok, here's the pricing discussion; As it is, this mod has some elements of many of the CNC games combined- but with dissonant pricing. Also our tanks are greatly more expensive (to discourage tank rushing and encourage more abstract units and sabateur work) The kind of units that would head off tanks may need to be more expensive too, to balance- aircraft in particular are a lot meaner than in other CNC games, and may need a price hike too. We just need to make sure that we keep the prices in check compared to superweapon prices. So, the basics; #'Infantry' cost the same as their Red Alert 2 counterparts- with the exception of those who got major enhancements (the hardcore Tesla Shock Trooper in this mod is 200 bucks more than the wimpy one in RA2). Overall, these units are pretty cheap- which encourages to put as much effort into trying these out, as they would waiting for the extra resources to make some heavy vehicles. #'Anti-tank' Guardians, terror drones are a trickier one- but they could probably afford to keep thier old prices (the Guardian has a painfully slow ROF- slower than any tank's gun- the terror drone simply gets little extra defense against enemy fire). #'By default, our light vehicles' take a lot more damage, and as such, got a price hike of about an extra third, or half of their RA2 price- but could probably cost slightly more (about the same as RA3 counterparts it seems). #'Tanks' should cost about +60-100 percent more- and each would be well over 1000 bucks to make. The most basic tank in this mod should match the price of some of the slightly more expensive Tier 3 tanks of Red Alert 2, at the very least (say, Kodiak costs 1200-1300). However, our pricing should note that we need to be fairly consistent, so that a Devestator is still substantially more expensive than a Mauler (the RA2 Apoc costs slightly less than double a Rhino)- whilst at the same time not setting the cost sky high. So we might actually opt to make each slightly cheaper than previous projections. #'Aircraft' stand to do insane damage, and could dominate tanks- so they should probably actually cost even more than they do now (top-end jets easily qualify for mini-super weapons- so their price isn't as much an issue) #'Ships' are tremendously more applicable than tanks- but I think our pricing on these is pretty good- so they could stay- risking only the slightest price hike (after all, the Kronos and Control Ship are definitely floating superweapons and psychci dominators, so nobody will complain about paying even 4000 for these). Plus, it would look awfully odd having tanks cost more than ships (as you pointed out). #'Structures' would borror their prices from RA2 and RA3 counterparts, along with Generals (overall, the pricing and power consumption aren't much different). We should probably evaluate a little bit to decide which pricing is best. #'Ditto on defenses'- about the same as RA3 had it would probably work. The Prism Towers/Tesla Coils being Tier 3 nicely offsets their incredibly low cost (hardly more than the tanks). Also needing power helps too. #'National units' are 'subsidised'- they can afford to cost less than what they should REALLY cost as a normal unit of their worth, by virtue that the nations shouldn't be pushed too hard to actually make their trademark units- and by being restricted to national, are already balanced against other nations suffering the same problem. I think with this in mind (and open to debate too, as these are a lot of points), we should probably discuss some pricing considerations as far as our units are concerned, and then start making a list of their final costs. VolteMetalic 12:27, December 31, 2011 (UTC): Umm... I guess it is all fine, only that light vehicles should be as in RA3, not too expensive like tanks. Hazza-the-Fox 07:41, January 1, 2012 (UTC)Yep, sounds good. So, as a rough estimate before we jump into some more solid prices, #the prices for all the infantry units we discussed should stay as is; #Light vehicles and robots are virtually as costly as their RA3 counterparts; #The Kodiaks should be about 1200-1300, Maulers about 1400-1500. #Support vehicles should in turn cost slightly more than these tanks (thanks to their greatly enhanced max attack range, and the fact that artillery is as arguably as spammable unit as a tank.). So about 1400 for the Mars, and 1500 for the V5. #Heavy tanks/mega-vehicles need to cost a huge deal more than the regular tanks. I reckon 2000-2200 for the Sonic Tank and 2200-2600 for the Devestator. Probably a fair price, as the Sonic Tank can demolish several tanks at a time, and the Devestator's guns can outreach enemy tanks and possibly destroy them in a single barrage. #I think the basic jets should be slightly more expensive than the tanks (about 1500 for Raptor, and 1600-1700 for MiG). 2000-ish for the middle-level bombers, Kirov is 2500-2600 (like RA3), the two Tier 4 craft between 2500 and 3000. #I think the ship prices are fine- at best only slightly inflated, so #Structures/defenses are fine #Nationals should cost about the same as their closest non-national counterpart (so national heavy vehicles cost about 2000-2200 at most, national heavy aircraft about 2500, etc). I reckon we could probably start the lists soon, if there is nothing I missed. VolteMetalic 23:20, January 1, 2012 (UTC): I think everything is fine. Hazza-the-Fox 00:02, January 2, 2012 (UTC) Ok, now all that is left are the structures; Generally, I reckon that following the Red Alert 3 prices are quite fine- we just need to sort out the construction yard issue, as well as the depots; As we discussed before, I think it would be a good idea for the Construction Yard (vehicles) to be available at the depot- but to remain as expensive as they always have been (2500) so players can't spam bases, but DO have the early ability to replace their Conyards (rather than virtually losing the game because they didn't build their factory yet). The Depots (and their harvesters) I think should cost less to kick start the game faster. So I think the depots should cost only 1100-1300, and the supply trucks about 500- these I think the players SHOULD be able to spam to get a large flow of resources (putting aside any limitations of how fast the resource structures can load them up)- and it has the added benefit that supply vehicles can then afford to have more 'normal' hit points, by ease of replacability- but also opens up more ambush and 'starvation' tactics- rather than RA2's alternative of having ridiculously durable collectors (except against Terror Drones anyway). That aside, there is the matter of the minor superweapons (Iron Curtain and Chronosphere)- should probably cost 3000- which puts these structures as still more costly than most units. The majors (Nuke and Orbital Prism) cost 4500-5000. The Adv Labs should both cost 2500-3000 themselves. Which leaves any cash-generating structures- they should cost about 2500- which would be a good price regardless if they could be built en-masse or not (it was a bit tricky pulling this off in Generals- and for each of these structures, you could have built a mega-unit or almost a superweapon- and choosing not to, you must hold out without these extra units until the benefits trickle back- after which they definitely prove worthwhile). Price Lists Hazza-the-Fox 03:25, December 31, 2011 (UTC)(for later discussion once we've clarified the basics and can debate explicit prices, and compare the costs of all the units). 'INFANTRY' Hazza-the-Fox 23:49, January 1, 2012 (UTC) GENERAL INFANTRY (Same for both sides) *Scout- 100 *Dog- 200 *Engineer- 500 *Spy- 1000 ALLIED INFANTRY *Marine- 200 *Guardian- 400-500 (note tanks cost double, but this guardian actually fires much slower and is not crush-proof- so this expense roughly works out) *Air Defender- 700 (note, generally better than old rocketeer) *Jager- 800 *Chrono Legionairre- 1500-1600 *M-COM- 1000 (same price as Mirage Tank in RA2) *Centurion- 900-1400 (has armor and range and splash and ROF- so he'd need to be quite an expense- note that his gun isn't THAT extreme in game, but definitely brings some general hurt to a lot of enemies at a time) SOVIET INFANTRY *Conscript- 100 *Flak Trooper- 300-400-500 (note aircraft are more expensive, and this guy now has a light long-range attack against ground *Pariah- 400 (somewhat massable) *Tesla Shock Trooper (800-900)- about fair for a walking tank with no great vulnerabilities but short range *PsiCorps- 1500-1600 (just more than an enemy Mauler tank, and stands to benefit from Cerebral Stabilizers) *Crazy Ivan- 1000? (his minelaying can prove quite a huge threat, and on top of that, he's a commando) *Desolator- 900-1400 (insane damage, range and armor- and at heroic he's a walking disaster area). Unit Range Categories Hazza-the-Fox 03:35, December 8, 2011 (UTC) Contained herein are the generalized distances that units shoot from. Note that these distances are not set distances, but also include the distances between themselves and the lesser distances- and thus, the units contained within do NOT strictly have the same range. The distances are: #'Melee'- virtually right next to the target, or within leaping distance; includes spies, terror drones, dogs, Pariahs. #'Short-Range'; approximately a few meters away- 12 at best- at the very shortest distances are the Tesla Trooper, followed by the Legionairre, the M-COM, and the Flamebot probably having the greatest distance. #'Medium-Short Range': far longer than short range, but not quite Medium range (or rifle-range); varies from grenade-throwing distance to the distance units with pistols or SMGs can shoot. This is also the range of the Mastermind's control ability, and shorter-range attack aircraft's fire distance- such as the Air Defender. #'Medium Range (Rifle range)'. Is the distance Conscripts and Marines can shoot (note that the Marines' range is slightly longer), and is also the distance vehicle-mounted machineguns can fire, as well as gunships. Probably the Flak Raider too. #'Medium-Long Range (Tank Range)' is the distance both the Mauler and Kodiak can fire normally. It is also the distance the for PsiCorps, Sonic Tank (note that the Sonic blast may travel further than the target), and Centurion's GMG. Most AA can shoot from this distance. #'Long Range'- the range of the Prism Tower and Tesla Coil, the Devestator, the Flak Trooper's mortar, and probably also the Guardian (post-upgrade). Note that the most potent AA structures and ships can shoot at air units from this distance. #'Optical Range (aka Sniper Range)'. The maximum line-of-sight for ground units (notably the Scout in 'camp mode'), and maximum range for direct-fire weapons. Unlike other ranges, all the following units shoot at roughly the same distance. Includes the Jager's sniper rifle, the Desolator's long-range gun, the Grinder-Magnetron, and the Prism Tank. Also, the Nightwing can both see AND shoot slightly further than this range. #'Siege Range'- the distance siege units can shoot (beyond their line of sight). Includes the naval guns, the Grand Cannon, and the Siege Chopper. #'Ultra-Siege Range'- reserved solely for missile artillery, and the Control Ship and KRONOS only. It is also reserved for the Allied Drone Carrier, and the Chrono Relay. These units can attack from absolutely ridiculous distances, so long as as another, closer unit projects its line of sight over the target. I think that should cover it. Questions? VolteMetalic 20:15, December 8, 2011 (UTC): Hmm... the classes are good, but I would change few things. The Chrono-Relay may be decreased. Aircrafts may be firing on each other in Long or Medium-Long range, and few minor things but it doesnt matter. I wil its all covered :D And for Dreadnough, you should remake the concept, to have only two or three large missiles, and few anti-ship missiles all over the deck for close self-defense, but nothing what can make it an attacker. Hazza-the-Fox 09:43, December 9, 2011 (UTC) Chrono Relay should be decreased? If you suggest (though it is meant to be a form of siege unit with a foilable munition). Did you want aircrafts to fire long/medium long range? (they technically already are). Dreadnaut- good idea- we should probably look into that in the Dreadnaut section discussion too (perhaps these mini-missiles could be a secondary one-off-and-long-reload attacks?). VolteMetalic 12:44, December 9, 2011 (UTC): Yeah, because when it will have long range, there will be no chance of actually attacking them. Yeah, in modern days the air combats are more that the plane tells you "there is enemy", you push a button and its all. Here, as the missiles arent capable of taking down an aircraft with one shot, will havea chance to close in and do the dogfight. Also, when they will launch missiles from long range, in lategame the flares can block it. Hazza-the-Fox 13:20, December 9, 2011 (UTC) Good point. It would also weigh against if this thing can itself teleport or not. Aha! yes- you're talking about the AA missiles in aircraft, in particular- definitely yes, these should be long ranged (I thought you meant ALL AA- machineguns and such). Original Discussion Hazza-the-Fox 10:13, August 23, 2011 (UTC)Hazza-the-Fox Thanks! Well, I think to start this off I suppose we could discuss how to organize these pages, Everything relating to the Soviet faction; List out unit functions and roles, As well as some ideas on structures, defenses and upgrades, etc. I could start with a quick rundown on the units, the dichotomy they each have against the allied counterparts, as well as equaliing against other Soviet players, along with niches they fill, and preventing arms races to the top tier as the sole path to success. But first some basic ideas -All the units are for most purposes, equal and fairly different- in that there is no apparent counterpart (except hovercraft, supply trucks, MCV/Nanocores, dogs, spies, engineers and scouts); in the sense that there is no clear superior unit, and units that may have the better or stronger counterpart on one side might have the cheaper or more versatile or even more destructive counterpart on the other. -Gameplay is split between direct combat (normal CNC style), abstract combat (what Red Alert 2 almost had were it not for the fact that it was easier to make a horde of tanks), and infiltration and espionage. As tanks will be less accessible (see below), players will need to use the other units a little more if the defending player is really good at what he does. -The resource system is more Generals-real world, where instead of the income comes from shipments from warehouses on the map, and from 'roadblock checkpoints' leading out of the map. Possibly, the hovercraft could double as amphibious cargo transports if the code allows it. -All direct-combat vehicles are approximately 1.5x the cost of their Red Alert 2 counterparts, but sturdier; -All tanks cost almost double their Red Alert 2 counterparts- but are all-round way better; this ensures that people will want tanks to support their armies- but cannot tank rush, and the matching number of anti-tank infantry would stack the odds against them. Similarly, standard tanks might be available on the construction of the 'Radar' structure, than just the Factory alone (not too much a handicap- but prevents early rushing) I think that's all off the top of my head for now. VolteMetalic 11:07, August 23, 2011 (UTC): The abiltiies of the units would be discussed on the faction's respected pages (Soviet and Allied Arsenals). Same goes to structures and upgrades. For the money gaining, you mean the use of Ore Nodes (with different model). Yeah, thats good, but I dont understand that "roadblock checkpoints", what that is? For hovercraftrs, sure, that is not a problem, but its better to use the Supply Trucks with amphibious ability, makes it easier to code, because I dont know if the game will be able to recognize when the Refinery will be able to spawn truck or hovercraft. Also, there again aroses the problem with secondary ability (structures can have them, but dont have to have them). To solve this, there will must be two Refienries, one for surface and one on water plane. I agree, this would make it more real-life fighting. Also, in RA3 it is possible to make the "protection levels". Meaning that a vehicles are more vulnerable when being attacked to the back. And the turret rotation and vehicle rotation. Simply making it a really great simulator for this :P And about that "Radar Structure" as a step to have tanks, in RA3 it is made like this. In Tier 1, Factory can produce only Ore Collector, Transport (IFV, Bullfrog AA and Sudden Transport) and anti-infantry (Riptide Hovercraft/transport, Sickle and Mecha/Jet Tengu). I agree on this. About Commandos, we could use the topic with its name. Hazza-the-Fox 02:34, August 24, 2011 (UTC)Hazza-the-Fox Excellent! Yes- Warehouses are like ore nodes, and 'checkpoints' are just another alternative to warehouses (only they look like border gates, they're located on the edges of the map (by choice of the mapper of course), and they return more cash as they are typically further away. Ok, let's ditch the cargo alternative for the hovercraft Protection Levels- Red Alert 3 can do THAT?!??! That's awesome! Yes, we should definitely see if we can put that in! VolteMetalic 03:51, August 24, 2011 (UTC): I see. I am little unsure how would these Border Gates look like and how will they load the cargo on the supply truck, but it isnt a problem. So you want a truck with amphibious, or truck and hovercraft? Yes, its possible :) And look on Allied Arsenal, I am not sure if I wrote it up-to-date. Dont knew who Jager replaces, but if he is "commando unit", place him to M-COM. Hazza-the-Fox 07:06, August 24, 2011 (UTC)Hazza-the-Fox The idea with border gates is that they look like the kind of border-crossing gates you get between countries or quarantine zones. The idea is the supply trucks will simply dissapear inside them for a minute and re-emerge, full of supplies, to head back to base (by placing these gates at the edges of the map- it will look like the trucks simply left the map to get supplies outside, and are returning). For supply trucks- I think just keep them plain, non-amphibious supply trucks. The hovercraft was just a possibility, but I don't think we really need amphibious resource collecters in this game. Awesome! The Jager is the standard Allied Commando unit (replacing the SEAL)- the M-Com is an Allied national Commando unit (not sure which country). Of course, we might be able to switch these around but I think it's better the way they are- snipers are a good compliment for normal forces, while a stealth unit with a miniature sonic gun is much more extreme. VolteMetalic 17:50, August 24, 2011 (UTC): I understand that, but I mean how it will look design-wise. A Supply Ship/Boat wont be a bad idea either at all. Have a Refining Dock and Sea Ore Platform, and its all right. En-massable commandos >_> ... And what is their Soviet counterpart? As "commando"? Hazza-the-Fox 06:25, August 25, 2011 (UTC)Hazza-the-Fox Quite true- supply ships are worth looking into Commandos- as I said in the commando thread, I admit I kinda mis-used the term. Generally the units that count as 'commando' are simply combat infantry that get the infiltration perks (Alarm Bypass), and are able to plant bombs on structures (and usually vehicles)- and thus I think a better term is "Operative". With this in mind, the Soviet counterpart is the Crazy Ivan - instead of a short-ranged SMG, they get a shorter-ranged hand grenade. Otherwise, the Ivan is hardier than the Jager, and his explosions are more dangerous to surrounding units. VolteMetalic 07:41, August 25, 2011 (UTC): Ok :) It will be another original thing, along with the border gates :D How will they look like? But Jager is more stealthier ;) I see :) Hazza-the-Fox 09:28, August 25, 2011 (UTC)Hazza-the-Fox Hmmm- a supply ship should probably be some simple flat-top barge, or possibly a freight-ship; a barge however would look very distinct from the combat ships- which is always a good thing. Something like that- of course, considering the Jager can snipe from affar to engage enemies without revealing his position if he's out of sight range- his stealthiness is already though out (as the Ivan too can evade radar and bypass alarms- or otherwise he wouldn't last very long if he tried to enter a base with a response team and some prism towers)! VolteMetalic 10:13, August 25, 2011 (UTC): Yeah, nothing too fancy, just a ship with a free deck for the supplies/ore or whatever. :nod: